What you will learn?
Good morning, everyone. Did you love Ann Hanley’s keynote? What an amazing person isn’t she? Yeah proud to call her a friend. My name is Tim Ash and I want to ask you a simple question. How do you build relationships that embody trust in real life? Shout some stuff out, be honest. Okay, that’s good.
[00:00:26] Audience: Be honest.
[00:00:27] Tim Ash: Be honest. Okay, that’s good.
[00:00:28] Audience: Be nice.
[00:00:29] Tim Ash: Be nice. Okay, be likeable, that works. What else?
[00:00:32] Audience: Trust back.
[00:00:34] Tim Ash: Trust back. Okay.
[00:00:35] Audience: Listen.
[00:00:36] Tim Ash: Listen. It was, sorry?
[00:00:38] Audience: Reliable.
[00:00:40] Reliable, yeah, keep your word consistency, right? They’re all great things. There’s only one fucking problem with that, online trust is different. You can’t do any of those things when you have to do it instantly. What happens when an anonymous person shows up on your website? What do you know about them? How do you build instant trust? Trust is a two-way street as we just discussed all of the things, you guys were talking about were things you would do to create trust, but you can’t do them in an instant can you?
[00:01:17] You can’t show consistency. You can’t show niceness. You can’t do any of those things. So, how do we do it? To these Anonymous visitors, what do you really know about your online visitors? Shout it out.
[00:01:29] Audience: IP address.
[00:01:30] Tim Ash: IP address. Okay, great. Thank you, mister software engineer. What else?
[00:01:35] Audience: Where they’re from.
[00:01:37] Where they’re from. Yeah, maybe geo target based on that IP address, you know their browser resolution. Okay, good stuff but I mean you really don’t know anything about the person, right? So, if trust is a two-way street and you can’t influence the anything about.. You don’t know anything about your visitors. They really don’t want to know anything about you either. So, the problem is, and I kind of know a little bit about conversion rate optimization, trust has to precede the conversion.
[00:02:07] By the way, I made these really handy dandy slides for you. You can just grab a picture and then tweet it. Okay, makes life really easy. Yeah, come on up front if you want to grab some floor. There’s plenty up here. I promise not to step on most of you. So, go ahead and use these slides. I’ll get you the slide deck at the end. You won’t be able to take notes as fast as I flip these. So, you’ll get them at the end, just do the important note taking which is probably like 2% of what I’m saying. All right you up to you to figure it out.
[00:02:39] So I’ve come up with Four Pillars of Building Trust Online and I cover them in my book and I’m going to give those books away at the end as well.
[00:02:45] So what are the four pillars? These are Universal. The first is appearance. What do you think of this guy, ladies? Guys are like, that bastard. Yeah strong jaw, that’s what they say, you know, we select from a genetic standpoint, you know, like the ability to take out mastodons.
[00:03:07] Let’s play a quick game here, okay? Chloe, take a look at this website. Let me ask you a question, would you buy a grand piano from this company?
[00:03:16] Chloe: No.
[00:03:17] No. Any hands for yes? No, no hands for yes. Come on up front. There’s plenty of floor space if you want to sit. Okay, so I’m going to have you close your eyes those of you that aren’t already sleeping. Close your eyes, I can see you. Yes, you may. I’m okay close your eyes now listen to this Rick Jones pianos is the largest seller of pianos in the Washington DC area. They’ve been around for 25 years. So, all of the major brands Yamaha Steinway, If you don’t like it after 90 days in your parlor, they will take it back, no questions asked.
[00:03:50] Okay, now open your eyes. Now would you buy grand piano from this company, hands? All right raise them high. Don’t be shy, take a look around. These are the gullible people, the ones that raised their hand. Why do I say that? Because your eyes don’t lie. This website is a piece of shit.
[00:04:09] That’s the technical term. Am I right? Really $25,000 grand piano from this website. Oh, here’s the punch line, this is the largest vendor in their category on Google. They run this ad Nationwide on PPC and drive to this home page. Hasn’t changed much If you want to check out just right now RickJonespianos.com probably looks about the same as when they took this many, many, years ago.
[00:04:33] So appearances matter. I mean you probably judge me by my appearance. You know my hair styling excellence and my shiny shoes something like that. Most you close enough to get close to you go, you know did take a shower today. This is the weekly shower. Okay, there we go.
[00:04:51] I live in San Diego in Point Loma. Anybody familiar with San Diego? It’s this wonderful peninsula, a lot of boatie people. I’m not one of them, but this is Cabrillo Yacht Sales, yacht anyone? Great site, right? You’re not getting the full effect. I’m sorry because I couldn’t get the animated American flag too late. That’s animated and then this tiny little photo that the Chamber of Commerce took of a flyby of the harbor and downtown area, good times. Nobody’s going to buy a yacht from them, but it doesn’t have to be expensive items, not grand pianos, not yachts. How about barbells? Barbells anyone? Wow, yeah, you begin you’re not getting the full effect of this because driving directions is blinking reverse on and off.
[00:05:37] Just in case you need to get there now. To be fair, no graphic designers were used in the creation of this page. This was clearly the owner’s nephew who’s 13 and took some kind of WordPress class or something. But the point is what do you want to do when you see a page like this?
[00:05:55] Audience: Leave.
[00:05:56] Tim Ash: Leave, you hit the back button. Well this is the web equivalent of somebody shooting you point-blank in the face with an uzi submachine gun. Okay, that’s just so you know. So, what’s the bottom line? Appearances matter and you’re going to get judged by appearance and that includes several elements the professionalism of the design. The sparseness and neatness of your site. Now, Apple takes this to ridiculous extremes basically on an all-white page and organization clarity. A lot of it is your thought process behind your site design, how convoluted and complicated it is what words you use to describe your business all of that.
[00:06:31] Okay. So, the bottom line, here it is, the professionalism of your website massively impacts conversion. Go ahead and grab that screenshot.
[00:06:42] Professionalism matters. There are exceptions to this. If you’re one of those long form sales letters, the Pharma industry is lying to you. I cured my diabetes by just changing my lifestyle and finding this one herb that I’ve included in my pills in the rainforests of the Amazon. Okay, don’t let them sell you all kinds of expensive stuff. That kind of page should look shocking. Your anti-establishment and in some cases that cheesy long-form sales letter works. Okay, but not for most of you, not doing what you’re trying to do.
[00:07:20] Transactional assurances. Why is this important? Did you know that most of us, all of us in fact have fight or flight instincts? You’ve probably heard of that. Guess what you get that every time you sit down in front of a web browser. You may not know this but if you actually measure this stuff, your blood pressure goes up, your heart rate goes up. Some of you and check out on websites will start tapping your foot in preparation for running.
[00:07:48] It may be subtle. You may not notice it, but your body is primed for that kind of stressor. Being online, we don’t know isn’t dangerous, we treat it as if it was any other physical environment. So, at the moment when you’re asking someone to open their wallet and give you money, you have to give them transactional assurances.
[00:08:08] Here’s a very extreme case, now Pet Smart’s not doing this anymore but what do you normally see in the upper left-hand portion of a website? The logo, exactly right. It’s the anchoring, am I in the right place? That’s a reasonable thing to ask. What do these guys have? A safe shopping symbol, this is now McAfee security to be hacker-safe. To compensate for that, they jumbo sized the logo, moved it to the middle. You’re not going to miss it, but the point is, before you even look at the rest of the page, you get this two-part message, and that is we’re safe to shop with, we’re PetSmart, everybody get that?
[00:08:42] They’re putting trust ahead of their brand. Now, this was in earlier days of the internet when people didn’t trust online shopping, but that’s a very, very, powerful statement. I’m sure you’ll agree. Look at that, hacker-safe.
[00:08:58] All right here you are at the point of decision. You’re on a product detail page. Why do they put all of that crap in the near the point of decision, near the add to cart button? Reassurances. Like if you secure a Verisign, buy safe, all of those consumer shopping assurances. It’s really, really, important when you ask someone to open their wallet that you also give them the assurances at the point of sale or at the point that it happens.
[00:09:21] If you say, well I have my buy safe symbol in the header of my website already. No, it needs to be in the body of your product detail page, and in your card again before you ask me to proceed to check out. All of those places. It has to be in context come on up if you want there’s plenty of floor space including up here. Anybody doesn’t like standing for half an hour. Okay. Just checking it’s good to get exercise.
[00:09:44] So, all of this stuff really matters, relieve point of action anxieties before they arise. A lot of you are doing it too late. You go, well, yeah, I tell them that I accept credit cards in the cart. Well, I’d kind of like to know if you accept me bizarrely Diners Club or something before the cart, right? It’s too late to tell me after I start to check out, so push this stuff forward and in a more prominent appropriate context. Bottom line, here it is.
[00:10:16] Let’s move on. I want to leave a lot of time for Q&A, hopefully, so that’s why I’m going at New York speed here. So, authority is important. Let me ask you a question. Let’s do another thought experiment. Bad news, appendicitis. You all have it. It’s about to burst. Anybody ever had to go through that?
[00:10:34] I’m sorry. Not fun right? You show up, you don’t get a choice of ER doctors. This guy shows up. Would you have been comfortable with him? Yeah, I mean he seems like old enough to have gone to medical school and you know. But young enough not to have his you know hands shaking tremors because he’s cutting you open. Am I right? All of you agree with that?
[00:10:56] Yeah, this guy shows up in a in a white smog with the stethoscope around his neck and that’s a fucking stock photo from our clients Shutterstock. It was $1. But why does it work? Because of the uniform, because of the authority that this person has. He’s not a doctor, but he plays one on stock photo site.
[00:11:18] We recognized Authority in the form of Judges, why? I was in Australia, their judges and lawyers actually have to wear silly wigs. One guy was eating lunch in a cafe and he had his wig off and sitting on the table. It looked like some kind of drowned rat or something. The point is it’s to give you that sense of authority.
[00:11:45] If this guy asks you to produce a driver’s license, is there going to be much debate about that? No, and not only because they’ll kill you in a heartbeat. Okay, sorry all lives matter but geez something’s wrong with the criminal justice system in this country. Those are free political opinions by the way, but no extra charge.
[00:11:95] So how do we manifest this authority on our websites? How about this? How many of you have heard of real age? It’s a website. So, four of you great. Most of you haven’t. It’s a website that will compute the real age of your body based on your biological age, not your chronological age, how well you’ve maintained your body. So, apparently, I’m seven years younger than I really am. Which still not young enough to be a millennial. Okay, but they’re asking you some personal stuff. Like what? Do you drink? Do you smoke? Do you do drugs? Do you exercise? That’s you know, really, really, personal territory. Would you agree with that? So, why would you fill out this quiz? Because of that. You might not have heard of real age, how many of you show hands of heard of any of those.
[00:12:50] Come on the rest of your asleep or holding your coffee still. Everybody’s heard of those right because they spent hundreds of millions of dollars and decades drumming those brands and that trust into our heads. Now, the next question is, okay. So, what? So, that. Same audience showing up 40% more people are filling it out because of those media mentions on the left. Same audience.
[00:13:18] As seen in, really powerful stuff. We work with a personal injury Law Firm the largest one in Utah, they will not be named but they’ve advertised everywhere. So, they say as seen on ABC. Well, they ran a commercial on ABC, but it was seen on ABC technically. You may not want to go like that gray area. But if you’ve gotten legitimate media mentions, you know, please for fuck’s sake put them up. Okay that’s is also a technical term. Now this works in the B2B context. This is one of our clients back when they had DVDs. These guys used to do large-scale DVD replication mostly for companies, so any custom DVDs made for your event, great.
[00:13:59] Let’s do another quick thought experiment. You are buying custom DVDs for your company, you’re the purchasing manager. You come to this site you found on a pay-per-click ad you come here. I bet I can read your mind, any takers for that? So, wow, this company works with Walmart and Microsoft and Nike.
[00:14:21] I bet they’re really expensive. I wonder if they’ll work with a company as small as mine. How did I do? Is that pretty good? Did I read your minds? My question to you is did any of you go hmm, I wonder if they can do the job, if they can deliver the goods, anybody? No. Really you thought that? You thought you weren’t sure if they work with Walmart and Nike if they could do your little piddly ass job, or you’re just not a trusting person, okay.
[00:14:52] Giving me a hard time. Most of you did not, because all they had to do was put up in a B2B context their client logos. Okay, but to be fair, some of you are thinking Tim that’s kind of overkill, 36 logos. Isn’t that laying it on too thick? Who thinks that? Come on, that’s a lot of logos. All right, so we did this test.
[00:15:14] And this page with no logos, this page with just a one column of six logos, and everything else re-centered, the form more prominent and this one. What happened was when we took this down to six or remove them all, that 58% advantage went away. We say thank you 58%. So, if you have trust symbols in the form of client logo, sometimes it’s good to pile them on.
[00:15:39] I get asked this a lot, never ever put in a rotating carousel where you only see a few at a time. Their whole power comes from this massive phalanx of logos. Now, depending on what context you use it in, they don’t necessarily have to be full color. They could be grayscale. Some logos are stronger than others, right? So, you have to kind of adjust for them to have equal visual impact and make them gray scale. They shouldn’t be clickable. If you have a legitimate relationship with the company and you work with them B2B, especially that’s a huge dress symbol. But again, this works in B2C.
[00:16:14] So this is a debt negotiation. For them they sell people that have high credit card debt. They sell their leads. Come on up anybody who wants, there’s floor space up here instead of hiding back there. Anybody that has more than 10,000 in credit card debt, they’ll sell your lead to a debt negotiation company.
[00:16:33] Okay, so they’re a lead gen firm. They’ll make you go through all of these hoops, but they have some trust symbols at the bottom. Now, I want to ask, it’s a little bigger on this version, did any of you have heard of any of those trust symbols or familiar with them? Raise your hand if you have, any of them. Okay, three and a half people, one’s really shy in the back there.
[00:16:53] Okay, I haven’t. Well, no, it’s not true actually Dun & Bradstreet, I’ve heard of but these others USOBA, I don’t know what that is. Make America great again. It’s got an eagle. So, why does that matter? About 10% live out of this total 51% improvement. We fixed the rest of the page too, was due to those trust symbols being added.
[00:17:16] Okay. We just made it more prominent. They were actually there on the last page. They were just down here in the footer where nobody would have seen them, or it’s also here, they’re extra proud of being USOBA whatever that is. You don’t have to have your audience know about what the trust symbols mean at all. It’s like the butterfly collection. We’re proud corporate citizen. We’re members of this.
[00:17:40] We’re not fly-by-night also helps to have a toll-free number on your site, even if you don’t want online leads. Although increasingly you want phone leads. If you put a phone number on your site, your online form fill rate will go up because they trust you. That’s another form of trust.
[00:18:01] Let’s do a quick test here. Who’s heard a CREDO Mobile before? All right. So lefty leaning NPR Watchers. I appreciate it. They’re San Francisco based cell phone company actually resell Sprint. But what they do is they give a percentage of their profits to progressive causes. Okay and back in the day this was the advanced phone.
[00:18:20] So they’re basically trying to get by you out of your contract get a brand-new high-end phone and all kinds of good things happen. Would you buy a phone from these people? Who are they? Can you hear me now? It’s not Verizon. I mean like you have no idea who they are right switch phones to them? No way. Okay, but we redesigned this page for them and we put these trust symbols on it. How many of you heard of Greenpeace Planned Parenthood or Doctors Without Borders? Okay, how many of you have heard of Credo Mobile? Oh, yeah, three and a half of you.
[00:18:52] So, this is a transfer of trust and we very carefully designed this. We used a heat mapping software. You can use Vanguly. We used to use our own. Basically, have the primary beyond the offer in the call to action, but some of the visual attention be at the top of that list. In fact, we fine-tuned it to have Greenpeace be a little more contrasting. So, your eyes drawn to the top of the list and kind of naturally drops down and so you think well, does this kind of stuff matter?
[00:19:18] Yeah just a little bit, 84% higher response rate when you use that page with the trust symbols on it. They haven’t shown you enough case studies about are outside authority and trust. So, the bottom line is you need to borrow trust from better known brands, whatever form that’s appropriate for your type of business.
[00:19:37] It will gather it up. You probably have some kind of PR clipping where you can sign up for a PR clipping service. Every time your company’s mentioned, you know. Reviews, awards, trade associations you are part of, put those badges on them. Again, I’ll give you these slides for those of you in the back, at the end. Okay, so you all you have to do is email me.
[00:19:57] The bottom line, and feel free to grab this for tweeting, your brand is weaker than you think. Anybody here with a world-class brand? Yes, what is your world class brand?
[00:20:06] Audience: Harvard.
[00:20:07] Tim Ash: Harvard, yeah that works. There’s always one folks, anybody else with the world class brand?
[00:20:14] No, you don’t, you’re shit out of luck. You don’t have branding working for you? So, you have to borrow branding from other people that have done it right? You can’t build a brand overnight. Alright, let’s talk about the final one. I’ve heard a lot about this gang MS-13. Do you think these people care what you think?
[00:20:31] Audience: Not so much.
[00:20:32] Tim Ash: Not so much. Okay, anybody here a parent? Okay, do you think these people care what you think? What do we care about? Why are we not influenced by our parents, for example? We’re influenced by our peer group. So, when I’m buying a backpack at REI, do I care what my parents think? No, do I care about what other buyers of this backpack think? Very much so, yes.
[00:21:06] So, whether this is an e-commerce or another content showing me the product rating, the number of reviews, the number of Facebook likes in this case, It’s very, very, powerful stuff. You can kind of combine and again, where are they doing this? Right on the page talking about this product. Especially for e-commerce sites, if you don’t have reviews, you are so screwed. Okay, you can buy reviews from outside aggregators and so on if you sell common products or make your own review engine or plug it into your site, whatever you’re doing.
[00:21:36] Here’s another example, for a while Pandora or actually Google I used to have this side wiki thing. Any time you pull up website, you can open the side wiki and see what people said about that site. Any Google user that has been to that site. Again, if I care about Pandora I care about what people have visited that site think and so there’s all kinds of reviews and commentary, but they did kind of a double whammy they also had…
[00:22:02] Well actually, let me ask you a quick question. What do they want you to do on Pandora, besides pay them subscription fees? They want you to like things. So, at one point this came up and they had some deal with Facebook and they’re personalizing the experience of, Miriam was saying to Lenny Kravitz, you know, once you begin, okay and then says hey guess what Andrea likes this guy too?
[00:22:26] Whoo. Well, if she likes him, I’m more likely to hit that little like button. I’m more likely to pay $1.99 instead of 99 cents on iTunes to buy that track from them, right? Social proof makes it more and more popular and more and more powerful.
[00:22:44] Here’s an example, at one point, Mozilla came out with their latest Firefox browser and six weeks later, half a billion people had downloaded it. Half a million downloads in six weeks and you go. Whoa, that’s great aggregated social proof. Look at the huge number of people that super popular, but they did even better. You know what they have. I was in Germany at the time it was promoting and like it was showing me all of the people in my area around me these blinking little orange dots where people are downloading it right now.
[00:23:16] How many of you have been on TripAdvisor and seeing like oh, there’s 16 people looking at this hotel right now and two just booked in the last 30 minutes. Okay, that kind of stuff. It’s like woah. Yeah, this is popular. This is good. It lowers my risk of bad things happening.
[00:23:37] So what you want to do is support automatic compliance by what Robert Shield Nene calls social proof. Objective large numbers, you don’t have to say we’re the best. You say, we have 37 billion users. Likeness of the other people, are they in my peer group? Do I care about them in this context? Testimonials from individuals.
[00:23:58] If you combine those into a super h-bomb of social goodness, social proof, you’re way ahead of the game. So, the bottom line is we’re the most social of animals, we’re the most social of mammal certainly. Make us feel safe by saying, Yeah, other people have done this before you. You’re not going to step off the cliff.
[00:24:19] Now went really fast on all of this. So, I said I want to do Q&A. So, here’s a summary. The four pillars of online trust are appearance, transactional assurances, go ahead and snap that picture, authority and consensus of peers.
[00:24:38] We’re almost done. I’m going to have a few closing slides and then I’m going to take a lot of questions and pack them in. I see here’s the finale my VP of Business Development said I had to put this up. Okay, we work with lots of big clients. We’ve made them money blah blah blah blah blah Okay, so.
[00:24:52] That was required. But it’s done now. If you want to know more about us read about us. If you’re 10 million or no online value business, we can help you grow really, really, fast. And if you don’t care about any of that, if you want a copy of this presentation, chances of winning my book, I’ll email the winners and you can pick them up at the reg window.
[00:25:12] I’ll leave them there. Okay, personally signed autographed books and hair styling tips from me. Well, clippers. Okay, that’s just one of them. So, all you need to do is just email me Tim@sitetuners.com, with the subject line CMC 18. I know you’re holding your phone up, stop taking a picture, take it out and start typing an email.
[00:25:31] Go ahead. I know you have phones and two thumbs firstname.lastname@example.org CMC 18, pretty simple. One other thing. I want to tell you. I am the guy that’s responsible for getting virally through this whole pickle of running a conference and we used to run it together through a joint venture partner, and he broke off and has been doing it locally here in Boston.
[00:25:50] I’m still doing my show in Vegas. It’s called Digital Growth Unleashed, used to be conversion conference the conversion rate optimization focus. Now it’s the complete customer journey and optimizing that. So, like sick discount for Byron’s Peeps. And because I’ve keynote of here a couple of times CMC 18 gets you five hundred bucks off.
[00:26:09] Okay, that’s only a week and a half away in Vegas. But if any of you are in that part of the country need another excuse to use the Lazy River or the wave pool at the Mandalay Bay, you know, this is this is your chance. Okay. I’m pretty social so connect with me in any of these places. And right now, I’m just going to throw it open to questions. We have about 15 minutes. I’m going to make them count. Yes, sir in the back.
[00:26:30] Audience response [inaudible]
[00:26:33] Tim Ash: By a pharmaceutical testing.
[00:26:35] Audience response [inaudible]
[00:26:41] Tim Ash: Yeah, if you’re under confidentiality with your clients, you can’t use their logos. I’m sorry. So, if it specifically says do not say you work with us. Don’t shit in your soup. Okay, but if there’s any other kind of relationship ask for forgiveness rather than permission. Put their logo up. Out of the tens of thousands of people I’ve told this to, I had one lady say one time. Well, this one company sent us a cease and desist letter. You guys know what that is like a legal letter saying you need to stop doing this and I said to her. Well, what did you do? You know what she said. We took off their logo. I mean, there’s still 29 others.
[00:27:17] Replace it with some other client. I mean no harm no foul, by the way, like if you just Google right now Microsoft logo, somebody do this, please for me. Just Google Microsoft logo and tell me how many search results come down. Can somebody do that real quick?
[00:27:34] 17 and a half million users of the Microsoft logo. You tell me if every one of those is authorized. A big part of copyright is enforcement. If it’s all over there, If and again, if you’re not doing real harm, you’re not even linking to it, for most of the rest of you except for people under specific non-disclosure agreements, use the logos.
[00:27:54] Audience response [inaudible]
[00:27:57] Something else again, media mentions are good, trade associations. I’m sure you have some kind of quality and compliance Association of how you do your lab testing, your research, proud member of, that kind of stuff. Great question, other questions? I want to make this appropriate for you. Yes?
[00:28:18] Audience: So, I have a question about fashion webpage Fashions change to how long a page is, whether you’re going to scroll on the page, whether it’s rolling media on it. How does that factor into the customer experience?
[00:28:30] Great question. There’s something that I talked about called the visual hierarchy, which is that text is the lowest you might want to write this down, text images, motion. Those are the three things that we pay attention to. In the presence of images, we’ll ignore text. In the presence of motion, we’ll ignore text and images.
[00:28:48] Okay, so it’s a hierarchy and so anybody that kind of sorry went a little off point here. Can you repeat your question? I’m sorry my train of thought derailed.
[00:29:02] Audience: So, my question is the fashion webpage design changes.
[00:29:06] Right. So, the so the important thing is to really get it in a way that’s appropriate for the balance above the fold. Justin talked about that in a session you yesterday there’s still a fold it might be kind of squishy and malleable.
[00:29:18] But if I don’t have to move my eyes if I can detect those logos, did you see how we did it on the. The one for Credo Mobile we had them greyscale, and on the side, depends on the context they’re in. If you want to say see case studies. Those are them full clickable full-color links. Okay, if you’re just saying this is a trust indicator put it above the fold greyscale. Okay, if you really want me to pay attention to it, then use some kind of motion. And again, we’d normally don’t recommend it, but if you’re a super startup and you need the extra exposure, move them, fade them, dissolve them. Have them go by in a carousel. I’m not a huge fan of those in general but if that’s your main purpose is to build trust, then actually use the most aggressive thing, which is motion. Okay hope that helps. Okay. Yes, sir.
[00:30:10] Audience response [inaudible]
[00:30:23] Tim Ash: Yeah, so the question is where to put this dress? Some of you have templates where you put like client testimonial goes here, and it’s on every page on your site. It really is more powerful in context. So, for example, especially for business to business, I don’t care how many clients you have, that’s more of a consumer metric. But how many do you have in Hospitality Management in the Northeast? I’m a hotel buyer, event director, here at the Westin. Okay, if you have a couple of really sharp on point case studies that are that specific, you got me. It’s not about volume but putting that on other pages on your site makes no sense. Putting it on the contact page makes no sense. In fact, your pages should be stripped down to the essentials a contact page has a very clear function don’t bugger it up. Okay, great question. This side of the room is underperforming. I must say, okay. Is that shame anybody? You just think about it while I answer this lady’s question.
[00:31:16] Audience response [inaudible]
[00:31:19] Tim Ash: Trust and privacy.
[00:31:21] Audience response [inaudible]
[00:31:40] Well that has more to do with personalization. I would say yeah, obviously you need to get opt-in permission. But once you have that permission, then you’re making arguably life better by only showing me relevant stuff. So, if you’re doing a retargeting, for example, how many of you do retargeting? Someone shows up on your side and then if they go to other websites you use showing them banner ads.
[00:32:00] If you do that, you can have a generic one that says, Okay, if they ever showed up on my site, I’m going to show them this generic ad. E-Commerce sites, you’ve probably seen this will show you the last product detail page you visited and link you right back to that. Okay, so you can say that’s a little creepy but it’s also useful.
[00:32:17] If I am thinking of that thing again. It’s a direct link to the product detail page. So, in the US, I think our attitudes are you folks. If you think you have any privacy in the society, you are sorely diluted. I mean, you know, the Europeans are trying to do this, right but if your focus is US,
[00:32:35] I think no one assumes that they have privacy and expects their data to be exploited. At least do it in a way that’s useful to the people. It’s the creepiness would be like so Target did some data mining and sent the coupon for baby related stuff to this household and it was a 15-year-old that accidentally got pregnant and because of her shopping habits on Target, they able to determine that. And then her dad got the mail and he was a little hot around the collar. So that’s in stepping into a little creepy territory when you get to predictive modeling, but if it just personalizing based on what I already did on the website or opening a previous email I see no problem with that.
[00:33:18] Audience response [inaudible]
[00:33:19] Tim Ash: That’s my personal take in the US. Yes sir.
[00:33:22] Audience response [inaudible]
[00:33:40] You know, Justin also said this yesterday if your offer or service itself sucks, there’s not much you can do. Okay, if you’re hated, if you’re Comcast, Comcast sufferers anyone? Yeah, right. So, your whole generation of people has to die before Comcast can reset their brand, right? So, health insurance is kind of the same way.
[00:33:59] I again, I think that personalizing it is helpful stories short form video is especially helpful, you know, I did this and when I got to the hospital these people treated me, right and my appendicitis was cured and here I am still happy and you know going to my echo yoga. Right that kind of stuff can be very powerful.
[00:34:19] So taking a big anonymous thing and making it personal. So, a dying child there’s a saying like a dying child is a tragedy, a million dying children is a statistic. Okay, so you really have to work on personalizing. So, I think testimonials and personal stories are especially in video form or a good way to go.
[00:34:41] Yeah great question. This side of the room. I’m going to let you redeem yourself. Yes, ma’am. Uh-huh.
[00:34:47] Audience response [inaudible]
[00:35:16] Tim Ash: Yeah, well, we work with FICO for example their consumer division. So we’re very familiar with that, you know, pull your credit reports kind of stuff and one of the things that you want to think about is if you’re asking for sensitive information, tell me why. Okay, so we need your social security number because that’s the only way we’ll be able to access your records. Can’t do it, without it.
[00:35:35] It’s not because we’re trying to do something nefarious. So, just leave a little explainer tip. The little question marks next to the field if it’s especially sensitive. Also, the order you ask it in a lot of times when you can do is get skin in the game. So, would you have someone do is okay, page one asks for my name and email?
[00:35:52] Okay. I’m giving that up a bazillion times. Page two ask for my social security number. At that point, I have psychological momentum and I’m already invested in the process. So, I’m more likely to give up the sensitive information. So how you stage doesn’t have to be alone form, it could be a series of lightbox popovers and you decide the order may be one or two fields at a time and just easy goes along and by the time you get to the end you ask the hard question.
[00:36:16] Yeah, I still and then hold out the prize. What do you get if you give this up and you’re about to complete the process so that kind of anticipation and dopamine kicking in that’s really, powerful too. Yeah great question. Other questions, thoughts, comments and want to remind you, email me at email@example.com CMC 18 if you want this presentation or chance to win the book or here styling tips. All right. Well people are leaving. Thank you, sir for staying. I appreciate it.